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[liberationtech] Jantar Mantar Vs Tahrir Square
pacificleo at gmail.com
Thu Apr 14 08:12:11 PDT 2011
I doubt if incumbent bureaucracy and Govt ( of which ever side ) will ever
have incentive to remove corruption . one fundamental difference i noticed
in nature of corruption in india and other countries is that in India ..you
have to pay bribe to make ppl follow the law but in other countries you need
to pay bribe when you want to break the law . we are gradually adjusting
our scale of tolerance toward corruption . Bofors Gun Controversy rocked
the parliament some 20 year back . today amount of money involved in
Commonwealth games scam was a lot more than Bofors . it didn't cause much
i doubt you can mobilize masses on logic .on that count there are argument
on the fitment of proposed anti corruption bill . see this
masses move by an emotional appeal , a identifier ..revolutionary they can
connect with . I though Anna Hazzare was one but i was wrong i guess ....
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Rohan Dixit <rohandixit86 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with Amit that in a democracy, change comes through the ballot box.
> The parallel with Egypt is not the best one, in my opinion.
> His point about "who are we fighting against" is also a good one. In a
> complex, multi-party democratic system like in India, corruption is not the
> problem of a single ruling party, but rather endemic to the system. The
> culture of "bhaksheesh" or bribes is pretty widespread. Most of these bribes
> are inconsequential, but the sum total is more or less "death by a thousand
> paper cuts" in the world's largest democracy of more than a billion people.
> I think the best model is to make structural changes that force openness at
> all levels of government. Providing electronic, web interfaces for applying
> for permits, licenses and so on can allow anonymized information to be
> published in real-time on the web. For example, when was a given application
> submitted and when was it approved? Who did the approval, and what is their
> usual time for approving an application? Publishing this data can allow
> citizens to inspect for themselves if there are outliers in the government
> As a general rule, simply do not allow in-person meetings with bureaucrats
> to the greatest extent possible- it sets things up for a bribe. Instead (and
> obviously there must be better ideas than this) turn government offices for,
> say, applying for a building permit into "help desks" for using the
> government web software interface to apply for the license. Physically
> separate the people at these offices cum help desks from the actual decision
> Rohan Dixit
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Pranesh Prakash <pranesh at cis-india.org>wrote:
>> On Tuesday 12 April 2011 03:20 PM, prashant singh wrote:
>> > but in spite of all
>> > that i must say that we didn't really managed to have our "Tahrir
>> > moment. whole thing eventually fizzled out and many amongst us believe
>> > this won't bring any substantial change in the way things are done
>> What is a 'Tahrir Square' moment? A moment that doesn't fizzle out? A
>> moment that brings substantial change? How, and importantly *when*, do
>> you judge the (non-)fizzling out of the Tahrir Square moment, or its
>> bringing about of substantial change? A month after the moment? Ten
>> months after the moment? Sixty-four years after the moment? When will
>> we find out whether Egypt has had its Tahrir Square moment? Who will
>> have the authority to tell us?
>> Perhaps we should think of creating a Tahrir Square index of
>> revolutionary moments?
>> Pranesh Prakash
>> Programme Manager
>> Centre for Internet and Society
>> W: http://cis-india.org | T: +91 80 40926283
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