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[liberationtech] Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

Pavol Luptak wilder at
Thu May 10 08:07:18 PDT 2012

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 03:06:18PM +0200, Andre Rebentisch wrote:
> Am 10.05.2012 14:27, schrieb Pavol Luptak:
> >Yes, you have 2 options - bad "competitive" corporations on a freemarket or
> >single monopoly government we have to trust. I do not like corporations,
> >but choose the first option, because it is less worse.
> It is not a choice between the two.
> From an ordoliberal perspective a "free competitive market" has to
> be engineered because it is no natural allocation (since companies
> themselves won't embrace competition).

"In contrast to Hayek's theory of group selection, Eucken believed in 
a rational and moral setting of rules by government."

This is a false assumption of ordoliberalism. 

This may be work in Norway where are highly ethical/moral politicians, but it 
does not work at all in my country (Slovakia) or other Central/Eastern 
European countries where are massively corrupted governments.

Governments cannot be moral when we have no ideal people and without 
possibility of direct economical feedback of their citizens (you have to 
pay your taxes whether your government is corrupted, bad or not).

> In the same way, a free net has to be actively protected by law and rights.

Yes, that's true, but personally I do not believe in the government's 
centralized legal system (prefer decentralized and private ones). In Slovakia 
the government's legal system is the most corrupted government's institution.

> e.g.
> Open Standards - a dominant player has no interest in open interfaces.

In Slovakia open standards are mainly violated by our government :-)
(and it is because strong lobby of Microsoft and other corporations).

> Net Neutrality - ISPs may prefer to build cartels with the media industry
> Privacy - Cloud companies would sell your data to the highest bidder
> including foreign governments

Building cartels/monopolies is extremely difficult in really non-regulated
markets (see the video I've already sent). If such cartels are created, 
there will be still a strong commercial demand for free/unfiltered Internet,
so new ISPs start to offer unfiltered and free Internet.... 

[wilder at] [] [talker: 5678]
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