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[liberationtech] Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

Fran Parker lilbambi at
Thu May 10 12:31:01 PDT 2012

Wow, that is the second posting from you Shava that was a wow moment in 
this discussion.

So many great thoughts from so many today!

It really does seem that ethics are often sacrificed in the presence of 
the influence* of power AND/OR greed regardless of the source 
(government, corporate, religious).

*influence -- how many times have we seen greedy government officials 
give over slowly but surely to corporate interests in the presence of 
corporate lobbyists/influence whether in thought and/or through their 
own greed.

Or what about citizens themselves who think that 'for the good of the 
whole' we all must have limited freedoms. By whose standards?

If one steps back far enough, you can see a bigger and bigger picture 
and then they might realize the short sighted 'good intentions' are just 
as damaging or more so to true freedom than anything greed and/or power 
directly could have have accomplished on their own.

So many angles...So many sides...

And all the sides and angles have valid points...

On 5/10/12 3:00 PM, Shava Nerad wrote:
> My personal belief is that human ethics has it's own Dunbar number.  Regardless of the political, religious, ethical, moral or whatever system - including the vaunted enlightened self interest of capitalism, which tends to break down due to the individual incapacity for systems thinking (or as a leader, projecting the vision of that system to others) the center can not hold, and it does not scale - because we do not have better people.

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