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[liberationtech] issilentcircleopensourceyet.com

Nadim Kobeissi nadim at nadim.cc
Tue Nov 6 11:25:01 PST 2012


Greg,
If you can see anything that is biased in my blog post, please let me know
so I can fix it ASAP.


NK


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Greg Norcie <greg at norcie.com> wrote:

> Nadim,
>
> I am aware of your blog post - especially since this is the third time
> you have posted it in this thread :)
>
> I am simply cautioning you that you could be creating the appearance of
> a bias.
> --
> Greg Norcie (greg at norcie.com)
> GPG key: 0x1B873635
>
> On 11/6/12 2:13 PM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> > Greg,
> > I don't intend to be anonymous. Why would I? I intend for Silent Circle
> > to open their source code for review, because as it stands they are
> > being dangerous to the methodology of security software development. I
> > have already written a blog post about this under my own
> > name: http://log.nadim.cc/?p=89
> >
> >
> > NK
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Greg Norcie <greg at norcie.com
> > <mailto:greg at norcie.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Nadim,
> >
> >     You are correct - the website (nor the whois) mention you. But your
> post
> >     on this mailing list does.
> >
> >     You seem like a very intelligent guy - if you had intended this to
> be an
> >     anonymous critique, I doubt you'd have used your real name to post
> the
> >     link :)
> >     --
> >     Greg Norcie (greg at norcie.com <mailto:greg at norcie.com>)
> >     GPG key: 0x1B873635
> >
> >     On 11/6/12 2:06 PM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> >     > Greg,
> >     > The website does not mention me at all, it's purely meant as a
> >     complaint
> >     > against Silent Circle's policy. I've already written a lengthy post
> >     > regarding Silent Circle (http://log.nadim.cc/?p=89) and yet have
> >     > received no reply.
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > NK
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Greg Norcie <greg at norcie.com
> >     <mailto:greg at norcie.com>
> >     > <mailto:greg at norcie.com <mailto:greg at norcie.com>>> wrote:
> >     >
> >     >     Nadim
> >     >
> >     >     I understand your position, but actions like this website
> >     won't help
> >     >     your cause.
> >     >
> >     >     Can you understand how actions like setting up this web site
> >     might be
> >     >     viewed as a way to call attention to oneself, rather than
> >     champion the
> >     >     (respectable) ideals of the open source movement?
> >     >     --
> >     >     Greg Norcie (greg at norcie.com <mailto:greg at norcie.com>
> >     <mailto:greg at norcie.com <mailto:greg at norcie.com>>)
> >     >     GPG key: 0x1B873635
> >     >
> >     >     On 11/6/12 1:53 PM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> >     >     > Ali,
> >     >     > The issue is trust. Security software verifiability should
> >     not have to
> >     >     > depend on Silent Circle (or who they hire to audit, for
> example
> >     >     Veracode.)
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     > NK
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie
> >     >     <ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>
> >     <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>>
> >     >     > <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>
> >     <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>>>> wrote:
> >     >     >
> >     >     >     Nobody would dispute that - that's not quite the same
> >     thing as
> >     >     FOSS
> >     >     >     default positions or some of the other criticisms.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >     For example, I'd contend a paid Veracode audit would in
> all
> >     >     >     likelihood be better than any typical FOSS audit. Had
> they
> >     >     done that
> >     >     >     (heck, they might have but I doubt it) and still
> >     announced the
> >     >     >     intent of opening the codebase - I wager that would not
> have
> >     >     stopped
> >     >     >     the criticism.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >     It appears to be a deep-seeded cultural divide more than
> any
> >     >     of the
> >     >     >     other factors combined.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >     -Al
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >     On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Yosem Companys
> >     >     >     <companys at stanford.edu <mailto:companys at stanford.edu>
> >     <mailto:companys at stanford.edu <mailto:companys at stanford.edu>>
> >     >     <mailto:companys at stanford.edu <mailto:companys at stanford.edu>
> >     <mailto:companys at stanford.edu <mailto:companys at stanford.edu>>>>
> wrote:
> >     >     >
> >     >     >         Security audits are always important, especially
> >     when people's
> >     >     >         lives are at risk.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >         On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Nadim Kobeissi
> >     >     <nadim at nadim.cc
> >     >     >         <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc>
> >     <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc>>>> wrote:
> >     >     >
> >     >     >             Hi Ali,
> >     >     >             There is no "agenda," and there needn't be one
> >     if you
> >     >     are to
> >     >     >             critique security software. No need to be so
> >     aggressive.
> >     >     >             My qualms against Silent Circle are detailed
> >     >     >             here: http://log.nadim.cc/?p=89
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >             NK
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >             On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie
> >     >     >             <ali at packetknife.com
> >     <mailto:ali at packetknife.com> <mailto:ali at packetknife.com
> >     <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>>
> >     >     <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>
> >     <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>>>> wrote:
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                 Seriously - what's your agenda?
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                 Where are the domains for the other tens of
> >     providers
> >     >     >                 who charge arms and legs based on closed
> >     protocols
> >     >     even?
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                 What's the nit with Silent Circle
> specifically?
> >     >     Because
> >     >     >                 they're accessible? Because it's easier to
> use?
> >     >     Because
> >     >     >                 the founders have good track records of
> >     standing up to
> >     >     >                 Government too?
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                 Being absolutist about everything isn't
> >     helping anyone
> >     >     >                 who ~needs~ it - it's a privilege of the
> "haves"
> >     >     that we
> >     >     >                 can have these conversations over and over
> >     again.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                 Shouldn't we have taken the "fight" to
> >     carriers, Apple
> >     >     >                 iOS T&Cs, etc. harder and longer ago? And
> why do
> >     >     we keep
> >     >     >                 expecting private entities to fight our
> >     Government
> >     >     >                 battles for us? It's a losing proposition and
> >     >     increases
> >     >     >                 the costs-per-individual to untenable levels
> >     when
> >     >     we mix
> >     >     >                 absolutely all their enterprise with civil
> >     liberty
> >     >     issues.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                 There has got to be a better way than this
> >     ridiculous
> >     >     >                 trolling and bickering. Someone? Anyone?
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                 Again, seriously, what's the agenda against
> >     Silent
> >     >     >                 Circle specifically?
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                 -Ali
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                 On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Nadim
> Kobeissi
> >     >     >                 <nadim at nadim.cc <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc
> >     <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc>
> >     >     <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc>>>> wrote:
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                     http://issilentcircleopensourceyet.com/
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                     NK
> >     >     >
> >     >     >                     --
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