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[liberationtech] Cryptography super-group creates unbreakable encryption

Ali-Reza Anghaie ali at packetknife.com
Thu Feb 7 13:47:30 PST 2013


I do have to wonder why they've twice mentioned embargoes countries they
couldn't sell to legally anyway.

Is there something I'm missing about ~selling~ dissidents solutions in Iran
and NK? US Government have an exception for that? -Ali
On Feb 7, 2013 4:38 PM, "Nadim Kobeissi" <nadim at nadim.cc> wrote:

> “I tell them go ahead and use Skype — I don’t even want to talk to you.
> This is for serious people interested in serious cryptography,” Zimmermann
> said. “We are not Facebook. We are the opposite of Facebook.”
>
> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/security-pioneer-creates-service-to-encrypt-phone-calls-and-text-messages/
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc> wrote:
>
>> The latest "unbreakable even by a supercomputer" article includes
>> artistic, black and white photographs of Phil Zimmermann and John Callas:
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2274597/How-foil-eavesdroppers-The-smartphone-encryption-app-promises-make-communications-private-again.html#axzz2KDR1XKE6
>>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie <ali at packetknife.com>wrote:
>>
>>> And even the "proponents" already have. Here, elsewhere, .. Nobody is
>>> happy at technically ignorant gee-whiz journalism.
>>>
>>> The discussion has been, a few times now, how we tend to speak out about
>>> it. And what busses people on the same side seem willing to throw each
>>> other under. Gods know why. -Ali
>>>  On Feb 7, 2013 3:46 PM, "Jillian C. York" <jilliancyork at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not going to get into the politics or pettiness of this because
>>>> frankly, I don't care.
>>>>
>>>> But this headline<http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/147714-cryptography-super-group-creates-unbreakable-encryption-designed-for-mass-market>and the accompanying claims of unbreakability are so incredibly egregious
>>>> that I would expect *every single person on this list* to speak out
>>>> against those (claims, that is), regardless of their feelings on the actual
>>>> product.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Yosem Companys <companys at stanford.edu>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just as a reminder, please let's all try to refrain from engaging in
>>>>> any personal attacks.  We're all build and use liberationtech to make a
>>>>> difference in various ways, and we're bound to have disagreements.  But
>>>>> let's not forget that we're all working toward the same broad goal of
>>>>> making people's lives better.  Otherwise, we would likely not be on this
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> YC
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Ali-Reza Anghaie <ali at packetknife.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Douglas, I'm not sure many people are disagreeing with the end-goals
>>>>>> and even Zimmerman acknolwedges the window for verifiable source proof is
>>>>>> closing fast (longer than many would have liked as-is).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My comments to Nadim are coming from a tact perspective - if the goal
>>>>>> is to gain wider adoption and recognition for all the community work, good
>>>>>> projects, verified projects, etc. etc. then it helps when you play in the
>>>>>> sanboxes occupied by more than the hackers and programmers making it happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not uncommon to have people, who need solutions the most, to be
>>>>>> afraid of projects because of the "main name" associated with them after
>>>>>> some cursory rant reading. Nadim = Cryptocat, Jacob = TOR, Theo = OpenBSD,
>>>>>> etc. etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's easy to tell everyone else to pound sand or to roll all activist
>>>>>> causes into one for the collective libtech "us" - it's not so each when we
>>>>>> take it elsewhere. Just trying to see how we can promote things that look
>>>>>> less like personal grips and trolls - and more like building something
>>>>>> useful. -Ali
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Douglas Lucas <dal at riseup.net>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can Silent Circle promoters explain why Zimmerman is excused from
>>>>>>> Kerckhoffs's principle?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it because something unverifiable is allegedly better than
>>>>>>> nothing?
>>>>>>> Even if we had divine knowledge to tell us Silent Circle is secure,
>>>>>>> isn't it an overriding problem to encourage lock-in of closed source
>>>>>>> being acceptable for something as common as text-messaging?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is good to have a scrappy talented young person such as Nadim
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> pesky to older, accepted people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02/07/2013 09:45 AM, Julien Rabier wrote:
>>>>>>> > Hello all,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I'm no sec expert but to me, it's so obvious that Nadim is right
>>>>>>> on this.
>>>>>>> > Perhaps the form is not perfect, but if he's the only one fighting
>>>>>>> for our
>>>>>>> > own sanity here, as he says, that's no surprise.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > We should all be asking Silent Circle to commit to their statement
>>>>>>> and show
>>>>>>> > us the source code of their so-called unbreakable encryption tools.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Again, I'm no sec expert and I won't be the guy who will do the
>>>>>>> hard task of
>>>>>>> > auditing and reviewing this code. But as a user, as a citizen and
>>>>>>> perhaps an
>>>>>>> > activist, I want the source code of such tools to be reviewed
>>>>>>> widely and
>>>>>>> > publicly before using and promoting it.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > My 2 euro cents,
>>>>>>> > Julien
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Le 07 févr. - 10:31, Nadim Kobeissi a écrit :
>>>>>>> >> Small follow-up:
>>>>>>> >> Maybe it's true I look like my goal here is just to foam at the
>>>>>>> mouth at
>>>>>>> >> Silent Circle. Maybe it looks like I'm just here to annoy Chris,
>>>>>>> and I'm
>>>>>>> >> truly sorry. These are not my goals, even if my method seems
>>>>>>> forced.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I've tried writing multiple blog posts about Silent Circle,
>>>>>>> contacting
>>>>>>> >> Silent Circle, asking journalists to *please* mention the
>>>>>>> importance of
>>>>>>> >> free, open source in cryptography, and so on. All of this has
>>>>>>> failed. It
>>>>>>> >> has simply become clear to me that Silent Circle enjoys a double
>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>> >> because of the reputation of those behind it.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Silent Circle may be developed by Gods, but this is just quite
>>>>>>> plainly
>>>>>>> >> unfair. If someone repeatedly claims, towards activists, to have
>>>>>>> developed
>>>>>>> >> "unbreakable encryption", markets it closed-source for money, and
>>>>>>> receives
>>>>>>> >> nothing but nods of recognition and applause from the press and
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> >> from *security
>>>>>>> >> experts* (?!) then something is seriously wrong! No one should be
>>>>>>> allowed
>>>>>>> >> to commit these wrongs, not even Silent Circle.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I feel like I'm fighting for our own sanity here. Look at what
>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>> >> allowing to happen!
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> NK
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:11 AM, Christopher Soghoian <
>>>>>>> chris at soghoian.net>wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> It is clear that you seem to have developed a
>>>>>>> foaming-in-the-mouth,
>>>>>>> >>>> irrational hate of Silent Circle. As such, anyone who fails to
>>>>>>> denounce
>>>>>>> >>>> Phil Zimmermann as the great Satan is, in your eyes, some kind
>>>>>>> of corrupt
>>>>>>> >>>> shill.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Chris,
>>>>>>> >>> You have repeatedly stood up asking VoIP software to be more
>>>>>>> transparent
>>>>>>> >>> about their encryption. You have repeatedly stood up when the
>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>> >>> overblew coverage into hype.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> However, Silent Circle remains *the only case* where you remain
>>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>>> >>> regularly in articles on the company, where you make a point to
>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>> >>> ignore that they are posting everywhere on their social media
>>>>>>> that they are
>>>>>>> >>> developing "unbreakable encryption", and marketing it,
>>>>>>> closed-source,
>>>>>>> >>> towardsactivists. When I confront you about this, you publicly
>>>>>>> accuse me of
>>>>>>> >>> "soliciting a hit piece" (!!) against Silent Circle.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> That is what I have a problem with: A huge, clear, obvious
>>>>>>> double standard
>>>>>>> >>> strictly made available for Silent Circle.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> I proudly stand by every single statement quoted in that Verge
>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Chris
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>> Chris Soghoian gives Silent Circle's unbreakable encryption an
>>>>>>> entire
>>>>>>> >>>>> article's worth of lip service here, it must be really
>>>>>>> unbreakable:
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/3950664/phil-zimmermann-wants-to-save-you-from-your-phone
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>> NK
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Brian Conley <
>>>>>>> brianc at smallworldnews.tv>wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> I heard they have a super secret crypto clubhouse in the
>>>>>>> belly of an
>>>>>>> >>>>>> extinct volcano.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Other rumors suggest they built their lab in the liberated
>>>>>>> tunnels
>>>>>>> >>>>>> beneath bin ladens secret lair in Pakistan...
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 19:42, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Actual headline.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/147714-cryptography-super-group-creates-unbreakable-encryption-designed-for-mass-market
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> NK
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> --
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>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> US: +1-857-891-4244 | NL: +31-657086088
>>>> site:  jilliancyork.com <http://jilliancyork.com/>* | *
>>>> twitter: @jilliancyork* *
>>>>
>>>> "We must not be afraid of dreaming the seemingly impossible if we want
>>>> the seemingly impossible to become a reality" - *Vaclav Havel*
>>>>
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>>
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