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[liberationtech] Cryptography super-group creates unbreakable encryption

Collin Anderson collin at averysmallbird.com
Thu Feb 7 15:43:38 PST 2013


> Is there something I'm missing about ~selling~ dissidents solutions in
Iran and NK? US Government have an exception for that? -Ali

There is a Favorable Licensing Policy for Iran on Internet Freedom that
specifically mentions "Fee-Based Internet Communication Services," although
since published in March 2012 it is unclear whether any actual license has
been approved. North Korea might have larger impediments since as I am
fairly sure there is next to no access to international telephony or
Internet connections.


On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie <ali at packetknife.com>wrote:

> I do have to wonder why they've twice mentioned embargoes countries they
> couldn't sell to legally anyway.
>
> Is there something I'm missing about ~selling~ dissidents solutions in
> Iran and NK? US Government have an exception for that? -Ali
> On Feb 7, 2013 4:38 PM, "Nadim Kobeissi" <nadim at nadim.cc> wrote:
>
>> “I tell them go ahead and use Skype — I don’t even want to talk to you.
>> This is for serious people interested in serious cryptography,” Zimmermann
>> said. “We are not Facebook. We are the opposite of Facebook.”
>>
>> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/security-pioneer-creates-service-to-encrypt-phone-calls-and-text-messages/
>>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc> wrote:
>>
>>> The latest "unbreakable even by a supercomputer" article includes
>>> artistic, black and white photographs of Phil Zimmermann and John Callas:
>>>
>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2274597/How-foil-eavesdroppers-The-smartphone-encryption-app-promises-make-communications-private-again.html#axzz2KDR1XKE6
>>>
>>>
>>> NK
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie <ali at packetknife.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> And even the "proponents" already have. Here, elsewhere, .. Nobody is
>>>> happy at technically ignorant gee-whiz journalism.
>>>>
>>>> The discussion has been, a few times now, how we tend to speak out
>>>> about it. And what busses people on the same side seem willing to throw
>>>> each other under. Gods know why. -Ali
>>>>  On Feb 7, 2013 3:46 PM, "Jillian C. York" <jilliancyork at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not going to get into the politics or pettiness of this because
>>>>> frankly, I don't care.
>>>>>
>>>>> But this headline<http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/147714-cryptography-super-group-creates-unbreakable-encryption-designed-for-mass-market>and the accompanying claims of unbreakability are so incredibly egregious
>>>>> that I would expect *every single person on this list* to speak out
>>>>> against those (claims, that is), regardless of their feelings on the actual
>>>>> product.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Yosem Companys <companys at stanford.edu
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just as a reminder, please let's all try to refrain from engaging in
>>>>>> any personal attacks.  We're all build and use liberationtech to make a
>>>>>> difference in various ways, and we're bound to have disagreements.  But
>>>>>> let's not forget that we're all working toward the same broad goal of
>>>>>> making people's lives better.  Otherwise, we would likely not be on this
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Ali-Reza Anghaie <
>>>>>> ali at packetknife.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Douglas, I'm not sure many people are disagreeing with the end-goals
>>>>>>> and even Zimmerman acknolwedges the window for verifiable source proof is
>>>>>>> closing fast (longer than many would have liked as-is).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My comments to Nadim are coming from a tact perspective - if the
>>>>>>> goal is to gain wider adoption and recognition for all the community work,
>>>>>>> good projects, verified projects, etc. etc. then it helps when you play in
>>>>>>> the sanboxes occupied by more than the hackers and programmers making it
>>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not uncommon to have people, who need solutions the most, to be
>>>>>>> afraid of projects because of the "main name" associated with them after
>>>>>>> some cursory rant reading. Nadim = Cryptocat, Jacob = TOR, Theo = OpenBSD,
>>>>>>> etc. etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's easy to tell everyone else to pound sand or to roll all
>>>>>>> activist causes into one for the collective libtech "us" - it's not so each
>>>>>>> when we take it elsewhere. Just trying to see how we can promote things
>>>>>>> that look less like personal grips and trolls - and more like building
>>>>>>> something useful. -Ali
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Douglas Lucas <dal at riseup.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can Silent Circle promoters explain why Zimmerman is excused from
>>>>>>>> Kerckhoffs's principle?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it because something unverifiable is allegedly better than
>>>>>>>> nothing?
>>>>>>>> Even if we had divine knowledge to tell us Silent Circle is secure,
>>>>>>>> isn't it an overriding problem to encourage lock-in of closed source
>>>>>>>> being acceptable for something as common as text-messaging?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is good to have a scrappy talented young person such as Nadim
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> pesky to older, accepted people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 02/07/2013 09:45 AM, Julien Rabier wrote:
>>>>>>>> > Hello all,
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I'm no sec expert but to me, it's so obvious that Nadim is right
>>>>>>>> on this.
>>>>>>>> > Perhaps the form is not perfect, but if he's the only one
>>>>>>>> fighting for our
>>>>>>>> > own sanity here, as he says, that's no surprise.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > We should all be asking Silent Circle to commit to their
>>>>>>>> statement and show
>>>>>>>> > us the source code of their so-called unbreakable encryption
>>>>>>>> tools.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Again, I'm no sec expert and I won't be the guy who will do the
>>>>>>>> hard task of
>>>>>>>> > auditing and reviewing this code. But as a user, as a citizen and
>>>>>>>> perhaps an
>>>>>>>> > activist, I want the source code of such tools to be reviewed
>>>>>>>> widely and
>>>>>>>> > publicly before using and promoting it.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > My 2 euro cents,
>>>>>>>> > Julien
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Le 07 févr. - 10:31, Nadim Kobeissi a écrit :
>>>>>>>> >> Small follow-up:
>>>>>>>> >> Maybe it's true I look like my goal here is just to foam at the
>>>>>>>> mouth at
>>>>>>>> >> Silent Circle. Maybe it looks like I'm just here to annoy Chris,
>>>>>>>> and I'm
>>>>>>>> >> truly sorry. These are not my goals, even if my method seems
>>>>>>>> forced.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I've tried writing multiple blog posts about Silent Circle,
>>>>>>>> contacting
>>>>>>>> >> Silent Circle, asking journalists to *please* mention the
>>>>>>>> importance of
>>>>>>>> >> free, open source in cryptography, and so on. All of this has
>>>>>>>> failed. It
>>>>>>>> >> has simply become clear to me that Silent Circle enjoys a double
>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>> >> because of the reputation of those behind it.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Silent Circle may be developed by Gods, but this is just quite
>>>>>>>> plainly
>>>>>>>> >> unfair. If someone repeatedly claims, towards activists, to have
>>>>>>>> developed
>>>>>>>> >> "unbreakable encryption", markets it closed-source for money,
>>>>>>>> and receives
>>>>>>>> >> nothing but nods of recognition and applause from the press and
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>> >> from *security
>>>>>>>> >> experts* (?!) then something is seriously wrong! No one should
>>>>>>>> be allowed
>>>>>>>> >> to commit these wrongs, not even Silent Circle.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I feel like I'm fighting for our own sanity here. Look at what
>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>> >> allowing to happen!
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> NK
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:11 AM, Christopher Soghoian <
>>>>>>>> chris at soghoian.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> It is clear that you seem to have developed a
>>>>>>>> foaming-in-the-mouth,
>>>>>>>> >>>> irrational hate of Silent Circle. As such, anyone who fails to
>>>>>>>> denounce
>>>>>>>> >>>> Phil Zimmermann as the great Satan is, in your eyes, some kind
>>>>>>>> of corrupt
>>>>>>>> >>>> shill.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> Chris,
>>>>>>>> >>> You have repeatedly stood up asking VoIP software to be more
>>>>>>>> transparent
>>>>>>>> >>> about their encryption. You have repeatedly stood up when the
>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>> >>> overblew coverage into hype.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> However, Silent Circle remains *the only case* where you remain
>>>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>>>> >>> regularly in articles on the company, where you make a point to
>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>> >>> ignore that they are posting everywhere on their social media
>>>>>>>> that they are
>>>>>>>> >>> developing "unbreakable encryption", and marketing it,
>>>>>>>> closed-source,
>>>>>>>> >>> towardsactivists. When I confront you about this, you publicly
>>>>>>>> accuse me of
>>>>>>>> >>> "soliciting a hit piece" (!!) against Silent Circle.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> That is what I have a problem with: A huge, clear, obvious
>>>>>>>> double standard
>>>>>>>> >>> strictly made available for Silent Circle.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> I proudly stand by every single statement quoted in that Verge
>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> Chris
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>> Chris Soghoian gives Silent Circle's unbreakable encryption
>>>>>>>> an entire
>>>>>>>> >>>>> article's worth of lip service here, it must be really
>>>>>>>> unbreakable:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/3950664/phil-zimmermann-wants-to-save-you-from-your-phone
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>> NK
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Brian Conley <
>>>>>>>> brianc at smallworldnews.tv>wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> I heard they have a super secret crypto clubhouse in the
>>>>>>>> belly of an
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> extinct volcano.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Other rumors suggest they built their lab in the liberated
>>>>>>>> tunnels
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> beneath bin ladens secret lair in Pakistan...
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 19:42, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Actual headline.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/147714-cryptography-super-group-creates-unbreakable-encryption-designed-for-mass-market
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> NK
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
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>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> US: +1-857-891-4244 | NL: +31-657086088
>>>>> site:  jilliancyork.com <http://jilliancyork.com/>* | *
>>>>> twitter: @jilliancyork* *
>>>>>
>>>>> "We must not be afraid of dreaming the seemingly impossible if we want
>>>>> the seemingly impossible to become a reality" - *Vaclav Havel*
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>
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-- 
*Collin David Anderson*
averysmallbird.com | @cda | Washington, D.C.
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