Search Mailing List Archives


Limit search to: Subject & Body Subject Author
Sort by: Reverse Sort
Limit to: All This Week Last Week This Month Last Month
Select Date Range     through    

[liberationtech] [HSF] Freedom of speech takes a back seat to Title 17 of the US Code[OT]

Uncle Zzzen unclezzzen at gmail.com
Tue Jan 15 03:52:33 PST 2013


+1 for skipping the middleman, but I wouldn't go DRM (
https://dubiousdod.org/drm ) but rather create a free platform (perhaps
even something reddit-style where scholars can comment on each other's
works, tag it, etc.
IMHO, since research is so costly, a "business plan" to profit from people *
viewing* articles would produce negligible revenue in comparison.


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org> wrote:

> ----- Forwarded message from Edward Bender <ebender001 at charter.net> -----
>
> From: Edward Bender <ebender001 at charter.net>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:23:50 -0600
> To: HSF List <OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com>
> Subject: Re: [HSF] Freedom of speech takes a back seat to Title 17 of the
> US
>         Code[OT]
> User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.35.0.121009
> Reply-To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
>
> The next paragraphs might be blasphemy.
>
> Let me say first that I don¹t buy into that whole ³you didn¹t build that²
> Obama-type rhetoric.  I think that was really a Freudian-slip on his part,
> allowing the listener into the workings of his thoughts and attitudes.  I
> think that what is paid for is a settled account, and that we can not
> ascribe future debt to individuals or businesses as an excuse for levying
> taxes (redistributing wealth).
>
> Having said that, let me state that my thesis is that, through direct and
> indirect means, state sponsored research is made possible by all of us.  It
> is the fuel that allows the ideas and theories of authors to travel into
> the
> light of day.  It is proximate support.  That support allows the geniuses
> among us (many on this forum) to ³push the human race forward.²
>
> Please examine the life cycle of a scholarly paper.  It starts with an
> idea.
> It is supported by the hierarchy of the academic department, funds are
> found, experiments performed or data collected.  It is written and
> re-written, and submitted to a journal for publication.  How much do you
> pay
> to the publisher for the right of publication?  It is reviewed by a panel
> of
> ³experts² and given thumbs up or thumbs down with the potential for
> acceptance after revision.  Those interested in the subject read the paper,
> perhaps comment on it, perhaps being inspired to do their own experiments
> or
> collect their own data.
>
> What role does a publisher play?  They certainly collect the money.  I did
> a
> pro forma for a presentation I wanted to but never gave to a company in
> Silicon Valley, looking at how much Elsevier made annually on the Annals of
> Thoracic Surgery.  It was impossible to say exactly, but I think it is
> somewhere between $825,000 and $3.2 million, depending on the number and
> type of subscriptions and advertising.
>
> So here is where I blaspheme.  Why do we need publishers? Why can¹t we as
> experts self-publish our journals?  What added value does a publishing
> house
> provide to science and medicine?  They hold knowledge hostage.  They silo
> and segment knowledge making it more cumbersome to access.  They suck up
> huge sums of money.  Is there still a Journal of Mechanical Circulatory
> Support?  If not, why.  If so, then why aren¹t I seeing its articles?  What
> are/were the pressures that caused success or failure?  Were you given
> equal
> footing with other publications? Was it a victim of the impact factor?
>
> I propose that we do to scholarly journals what Steve Jobs did to music
> publishers: make an iTunes-like store.  Articles are songs, journals are
> CD¹s, and publishers become much less important and influential - yet they
> still live.  There are no more paper journals, only files.  And, breaking
> free of paper, we can routinely add rich media to our articles to enhance
> clarity and understanding.  No more extra payment to Lippincott for a color
> photo in the article.  The cost of digital storage is so cheap, that a
> year¹s worth of a journal¹s content would cost less than $1 per month.  If
> you subscribe then you get full text access.  If you don¹t, then you buy an
> article for $1.00.  Sometimes even a heart surgeon needs an article from
> the
> Annals of Internal Medicine, and, believe it or not, many doctors do not
> have access to an ³institutional² subscription.  There is a lot of
> healthcare provided in towns with populations < 50,000 people and not in a
> university.
>
> The new ³apps² put forth by publishing houses are attempts to squelch
> evolution, not enhance it.  It is a middle aged parent trying to be ³hip²
> but it just doesn¹t fly.  It is your father¹s internet, and it is the same
> old crap.
>
> In case your wondering, I have the infrastructure all worked out.  You will
> love it more than getting a fresh new JTCVS in the mail every month.
>
> Ed Bender, MD
>
>
> On 1/14/13 1:56 PM, "Michael Firstenberg" <msfirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As I recall, research publications that are supported under an NIH or
> similar
> > funded grant is supposed to be available for free
> > Most, if not all of us, hopefully thru our hospital affiliations have
> some
> > degree of "free access" to mainstream medical literature - although
> clearly
> > not all.
> > Many major Journals do make their content free after a peroid of ~6-12
> months
> > Most authors are allowed to provide free PDF copies of their work to
> those who
> > request it
> > Much of the article charges that you mention tend to be related to
> industry
> > activities that want to use the data in marketing
> > ... and while you and I may had already 'paid' for the research (I
> assume you
> > mean taxes and donations) - we have not paid for the storage and
> distribution
> > of the results or all of the work that goes into transforming your
> MSWord file
> > into an acceptable PDF layout.
> >
> > yes - this is more complex than an answer over the phone - but published
> > material is copyrighted and while the laws are, according to some,
> out-dated
> > by digital standard - it is the law and you are more than welcome to
> propose a
> > solution to the protection and rights of intellectual property.
> >
> > Go ask Rolling Stone or the Times (where this article was published) for
> a
> > Free copy of an article that they published and see what they say.....
> >
> > I am interested in your response when you get back to a computer......
> >
> > -m
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Edward Bender <ebender001 at charter.net>
> wrote:
> >> This deserves a response that can't be well written on a phone.
>  However, as
> >> an intro, you and I have paid for this research.  Should you pay
> Elsevier $20
> >> for a current article?
> >> Ed Bender, MD
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jan 14, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Michael Firstenberg <msfirst at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ed,
> >>> Being the computer guru that you are - I have a few questions....
> >>> you, your company, institution whomever invests millions in hardware,
> >>> software, support, resource to populate and maintain a database for
> some
> >>> cause - and all of a sudden someone liberates all of that data and
> says it
> >>> must be free.  Who is suppose to pay for the support and upkeep of the
> >>> system - or do you prefer a Facebook/Google type approach of targeted
> >>> advertising bombarding everyplace you visit.  Or should we just raise
> taxes
> >>> more to pay for some of these systems in which a nominal support fee
> was
> >>> charged to access the data?
> >>>
> >>> Obviously these issues are a little more complex and this case is
> beyond
> >>> tragic - to lose such a brilliant mind - but also remember, as a music
> >>> fan/historian - many brilliant minds are lost before their time due to
> >>> mental health related issues.
> >>>
> >>> -michael
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Edward Bender <ebender001 at charter.net
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/technology/aaron-swartz-a-data-crusader-a
> >>>> nd-now-a-cause.html
> >>>>
> >>>> This is as tragic as it gets.  Even the company whom he invaded did
> not
> >>>> want to press charges (he worked with them also), but a minor league
> >>>> prosecutor, under the guise of self-righteous legal fundamentalism
> (read
> >>>> Taliban-like dogma) mightily contributed to the death of this poor
> genius.
> >>>>  What is right about this?  It may be legal, but it is certainly not
> right.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ed Bender, MD
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list
> >>>>
> >>>> Send postings to:
> >>>>  OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> >>>>
> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives:
> >>>> http://lists.hsforum.com/listinfo.cgi/openheart-l-hsforum.com
> >>>>
> >>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the
> policies and
> >>>> disclaimers posted at:
> >>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim
> >>>> -----------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list
> >>>
> >>> Send postings to:
> >>>  OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> >>>
> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives:
> >>> http://lists.hsforum.com/listinfo.cgi/openheart-l-hsforum.com
> >>>
> >>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the
> policies and
> >>> disclaimers posted at:
> >>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim
> >>> -----------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OpenHeart-L mailing list
> >>
> >> Send postings to:
> >>  OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> >>
> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives:
> >> http://lists.hsforum.com/listinfo.cgi/openheart-l-hsforum.com
> >>
> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies
> and
> >> disclaimers posted at:
> >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim
> >> -----------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OpenHeart-L mailing list
> >
> > Send postings to:
> >  OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives:
> > http://lists.hsforum.com/listinfo.cgi/openheart-l-hsforum.com
> >
> > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies
> and
> > disclaimers posted at:
> > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim
> > -----------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenHeart-L mailing list
>
> Send postings to:
>  OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives:
> http://lists.hsforum.com/listinfo.cgi/openheart-l-hsforum.com
>
> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies and
> disclaimers posted at:
> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim
> -----------------------------------------
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> --
> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
> ______________________________________________________________
> ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
> 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.stanford.edu/pipermail/liberationtech/attachments/20130115/01b38530/attachment.html>


More information about the liberationtech mailing list