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[liberationtech] Stability in truly "Democratic" decision systems

Pavol Luptak wilder at
Sun Jul 7 15:39:16 PDT 2013

In the past I had quite similar thoughts and was trying to analyse the most
effective / fair models of democracy (and I really spent a lot of time by
 this). And I ended up like anarchocapitalist / voluntaryist, everything else
was logically/ethically inconsistent for me, so I perceive a democracy like a
dead-end - especially in these days when most Americans are OK with PRISM / 
surveillance and democracy apparently fails. And people still believe in
the illusion of democracy (regardless the fact that democracy permanently 
fails -> Lukashenko, Hugo Chavez, Morsi, Bush -> all these people were 
democratically elected).


On Sun, Jul 07, 2013 at 12:47:52PM -0700, Peter Lindener wrote:
>       Watching Egypt iteratively attempt to find something that resembles a
>    democratic form government feels quite uncomfortable for me. Not only that
>    in the senseless confusion many lives will be lost, but also, closer to
>    home, here at Stanford, deeper reflections of the human condition seem
>    still to be leaving our institution's interest in promoting forms of
>    democracy that are more likely to function in a state of disarray..
>       I find it encouraging that Stanford has the kind of vision, value
>    system  and intellect that prompt it to support both a program on
>    Liberation Techonolgy, as well as the Center for Democracy and the rule of
>    Law...  
>       Then I have to ask why it seems maintenance of the existing
>    Socio-Political power schema some how seems to trump moving ahead with the
>    stated intentions of each of these promising programs..?
>      While not all seem ready for the rigor of formal methods in information
>    and Game theory towards building our society's better understanding of
>    what it truly means to achieve a more genuine sense of democracy (i.e. a
>    government for the people, by the people)... It would see that to just sit
>    by and watch, as we preach to others that democracy is good, and then fail
>    in any truly meaningful way to show how to achieve it, feels discouraging,
>    at least for me.
>       In a nut shell, the truly democratic group decision process, can best
>    be understood as an information process that under some circumstances must
>    endure varying amounts of game stress.  as varying interests within a
>    group attempt to maximize there influence on the group's decision outcome.
>        The good news here is that: Significant insights can be gained, as one
>    looks at the truly democratic group decision, as an information process..
>    These include:
>       1. Profoundly improved, individually selected, issue specialized,
>    expertise leveraged, representation can be achieved by way of
>    individualized Social Network based key word triggered proxy directives..
>       2. Wide open alternative Cardinal ranked group choice systems, that are
>    essentially free of the spoiler effect, will empower the implementation of
>    crowd sourced "idea percolators", that will tend to leverage the best
>    thinking and problem solvers within our society.
>       Now I know that some (perhaps from there ivory tower) may be wanting to
>    dismiss what it is I'm saying here....even as we sit watching the
>    situation in Egypt potentially melt down....   Some might point to Arrow's
>    Impossibility Theorem, and then declare that there is nothing more to
>    discuss...
>        Then a few (including a few very bright Stanford students) might be
>    taking note of Von Neumann*Morgenstern utility theorem, and realize that
>    there would seem to be more to understand...
>        Working towards the  dream of government, for the people, by the
>    people, I will continue to make my self available as a resource for
>    discussion surround the concept of Information Theoretic Democracy.
>       Sincerely your's
>           -Peter Lindener   

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[Pavol Luptak, Nethemba s.r.o.] [] [tel: +421905400542]

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