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[liberationtech] Defund Domestic Spying

Danny O'Brien danny at
Tue Jul 23 18:26:55 PDT 2013

On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:14:59AM +0100, Caspar Bowden (lists) wrote:
>    So the spying on the rest-of-the-world's data sent to the US, including
>    "information with respect to a foreign-based political organization or
>    foreign territory that relates to the conduct of the foreign affairs of
>    the United States", that's totally fine is it? When the US domestic spying
>    problem is fixed everyone can go home...
>    (slide 5)

I do hope it's obvious that, no it's not totally fine -- as EFF, along
with many other groups around the world, has attempted to document, not
least by citing Caspar's excellent and ceaseless work on this over the
last few years:

    Spies Without Borders

    Using Domestic Networks to Spy on the World

    U.S. Foreign Intelligence: From Carte Blanche Surveillance to Weak [Domestic] Protections

    An International Perspective on FISA: No Protections, Little Oversight

    Universal, Self-Evident: I'm Not American but I Have Privacy Rights too, NSA

    Spying on the World From Domestic Soil - International Backlash

    Global Dialogue on Governmental Extra-Territorial Surveillance

Right now, I'm party try to eke out some part of a long-term strategy
that could embody into US law the privacy rights of the billions of 51%+
non-US persons not resident in the US, and thus affected by FISA. (This
is separate from the infrastructural and technical changes we could work
toward which would make this kind of surveillance impracticable).

One thing I think that would help would be the creation of other
examples of substantive current administrative or statutory controls (ie
not international human rights declarations with currently little
operational weight) on the domestic interception of foreign targets for
law enforcement or national security purposes. 

About the closest we might have the upcoming Data Protection Regulation
COM(2012)0010 (See EDRi's )on the processing
of data for the purposes of law enforcement, which is always a bit of a
rollercoaster in scope and intent. Whereas'

    (14) The protection afforded by this Directive should concern natural
    persons, whatever their nationality or place of residence, in relation
    to the processing of personal data.

Hooray! And yet...

    (15) ...This Directive should not apply to the processing of
    personal data in the course of an activity which falls outside the
    scope of Union law, in particular concerning national security, or
    to data processed by the Union institutions, bodies, offices and
    agencies, such as Europol or Eurojust.

What tools do European or other politicians have to push back against
their own or others surveillance infrastructure. How might we push a
decision up the ECHR that would have a direct effect on this?


>    CB
>    On 07/23/13 23:56, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>      To any U.S. citizens out there, this might be a good time to act:
>      -Jonathan
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International Director, EFF | +1 415 436 9333 x150 | 815 Eddy Street, SF, CA 94109

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