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[liberationtech] Stop promoting Skype

Eugen Leitl eugen at
Fri Jun 7 06:42:05 PDT 2013

On Fri, Jun 07, 2013 at 09:15:32AM -0400, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

> Mine is something like this: if one day, the folks from the NSA showed
> up at X's door with a van full of equipment and asked nicely if they
> could please bring it in, then why wouldn't their counterparts in every
> other country do the same to X's sites there?  And since X wants to do
> business in those countries, why would it say no?

Why, I believe this is exactly how it goes down, your honor.
And UKUSA is effectively one compartment, and there are probably
looser co-operation programs existing in other countries.
> If on the other hand this was done by the NSA without X's knowledge,
> then their counterparts in other countries could try that approach
> as well.

I expect that they're collecting data everywhere they can,
some of which doesn't require cooperation (tapping submarine
fiber) and some requires partial cooperation (central tap
facilities at Tier 1 and 2) but also forcing major operators
under strict secrecy (need-to-know limited to few individuals,
some of them arguably also intelligence officers) and unmder
gagging orders so that officially disclosing the information would
bear severe penalties, and leaking would be risky since
the numbers of possible whistleblowers is very low.
> So would you mind explaining yours?  (My apologies if it's completely
> obvious and I'm just being dense.)

I doubt you are, we're probably in violent agreement without
realizing it.
> And a side point/adjunct to this: so far, I haven't noticed Amazon
> or Rackspace or Softlayer or similar on these lists.  (Again, maybe
> more coffee is badly needed.)  I can't believe for a moment that
> the NSA overlooked any of the major cloud computing providers.

I would also expect that anyone relevant would be on that list.

I would be very interested to know how the intercept and processing
is happening in so-called friendly countries, which do not have
the technical wherewithal and expertise to conduct the intercepts

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