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[liberationtech] Boundless Informant: the NSA's secret tool to track global surveillance data

Nadim Kobeissi nadim at nadim.cc
Sun Jun 9 06:45:31 PDT 2013


Jake,
I don't agree with x z (and rather agree with you), but I'm really tired of just how aggressive and rude you always are on Libtech. And it doesn't appear to just be towards me. I'm not the only person who feels like this.

Even if you're right, tone your ego knob down already. Be nice. I can barely read through threads anymore. Thank you.

NK

On 2013-06-09, at 9:15 AM, Jacob Appelbaum <jacob at appelbaum.net> wrote:

> x z:
>> 2013/6/8 Jacob Appelbaum <jacob at appelbaum.net>
>> 
>>> Oh man, Glenn Greenwald is my hero and a hero to us all.
>> 
>> 
>> Do you still believe Glenn's reporting that NSA has "direct access to
>> servers of firms including Google, Apple and Facebook"? 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I think it is clearly a FISA interface or API of some kind. Either
> that or it is pwnage of the server. Probably one or the other in some cases.
> 
>> In my view, he
>> misled the world intentionally (the few prism training slides published did
>> not seem to claim this). Glenn is at best a wacky journalist without common
>> sense.
> 
> He just broke the story of the decade, good to know your views on him.
> 
>> 
>> His reporting on the Verizon case was good, but I think his credibility
>> bankrupted after the PRISM one.
> 
> We disagree, obviously. You'll see soon enough and when you're eating
> crow, I'm sure we'll have another discussion.
> 
>> 
>> Everyone on
>>> this list who was looking for 'some evidence' about global surveillance
>>> and previously ignored all other evidence, well, here you go!
>>> 
>>> "Revealed: The NSA's powerful tool for cataloguing data – including
>>> figures on US collection"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-datamining
>>> 
>>> This screenshot from the program is very web 2.0:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/8/1370715185657/boundless-heatmap-large-001.jpg
>>> 
>>> The NSA is spying on the US and on the rest of the planet. There is no
>>> ability to deny this anymore. Anyone who denies it is a complete moron.
>>> 
>>> I don't understand why this "evidence" is significant in any way. NSA
>> certainly has lots of information, and a web2.0'ish tool is nothing
>> surprising. It's rather moot to state "anyone who denies it is a complete
>> moron". It's like the highway patrol keeping my driving record.
>> 
> 
> Why does it matter if you are surprised?
> 
> Also, your analogy is tired and boring. This is nothing like a highway
> patrol.
> 
>> Again, I'm not rooting for NSA. I think its power need to be limited and it
>> needs more transparency. But I hate using misinformation or hyperbole to
>> achieve that goal. This hurts the credibility of all the pro-privacy groups
>> in general.
> 
> I don't see any misinformation or hyperbole from Glenn. I see
> contradicting claims between governments and corporations. I also see
> that he wanted to ensure everyone understood what each side claimed.
> Note the very carefully worded denials all around.
> 
> All the best,
> Jacob
> --
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