Search Mailing List Archives

Limit search to: Subject & Body Subject Author
Sort by: Reverse Sort
Limit to: All This Week Last Week This Month Last Month
Select Date Range     through    

[liberationtech] What's wrong with the kids these days? - On the moral decay of the Dutch hacker scene

Lex van Roon r3boot at
Thu Mar 28 06:51:21 PDT 2013

On 28/03/13 14:41, hellekin wrote:
> On 03/26/2013 04:03 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
> > I find the observations in the article extremely grim and
> > depressing - it is largely as a matter of agreement, I might add.
> *** +1
Agreed, but ....
> > Consider this as a threat not only to the Dutch democratic
> > processes but also to the notion that the Netherlands is somehow
> > independent in terms of law-enforcement and intelligence. Surely,
> > one would not jest that the FBI deployed with the Dutch police
> > would serve the Dutch police first, right?
> *** Last year, I met Rick van Buro [1] at an event organized by the
> squatter group Schijnheilig [2] in Amsterdam. Rick and his group have
> been spending the last 25 years researching Dutch law enforcement and
> documenting the extension of power and repressive legislation in the
> country.
> He mentioned the increasing influence of the Mossad--Israel secret
> service--in the Netherlands: he estimated that Mossad gets all of the
> intelligence gathered, while 80% goes to the USA, and only 60% go to
> the local law enforcement agencies.
> - From other sources, it's easy to find that the Mossad has been
> training European police forces in Commando Krav Maga (deadly hand
> combat technique used in the Israeli military) and crowd control
> techniques. The militarization of police forces around the world is an
> obvious fact to those curious enough to look at it.
> The issue at hand is certainly not increasing crime--although crime
> related to poverty rises with it, but rather an increased
> criminalization of regular citizens. Just look at the systematic
> repression of peaceful social movements over the world in the last
> couple of years.
Without any factual evidence this is just speculation imho. Do you have
some publicly accessible sources that can confirm these facts? Putting
more oil on the fire will not help the cause, especially since there's a
lot of rumours an FuD being spread around wrt this subject.

> > With that said, the complicity of hackers in these kinds of actions
> > is beyond loathsome. Rather than helping to actually secure our
> > systems, we see compromises that undermine the very core of our
> > modern world. [snip] Hackers and those who are technically literate
> > have a responsibility to consider the larger issues at stake. Those
> > who don't, who just follow orders, who use simplistic self-serving
> > reasoning in place of thoughtful ethics - those people are building
> > a world where most of humanity will be subservient to such
> > architecture.
> *** Ditto.
> ==
> hk
> [1]
> [2]
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
emailing moderator at companys at or changing your settings at

More information about the liberationtech mailing list