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[liberationtech] espionage as plain old corruption

Ali-Reza Anghaie ali at
Wed Oct 30 10:59:29 PDT 2013

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Lucas Gonze <lucas.gonze at> wrote:
> The shoes left to drop:
> 1) NSA insiders using privileged information for investments. It's hard to
> imagine this doesn't happen.

I doubt it happens at a rate any different across Government and would
suspect it happens less due to DSS monitoring. They're much more
attuned to credit monitoring, financials, etc. than technical

And while you don't suggest it - I think changing the angle of the NSA
scope toward blatantly criminal activity actually works against "us"..
indeed that's how the NSA executives want to frame it. Because it'll
be a lot easier for them to address than the general over-broad abuse
that has nothing to do w/ criminal activity. They can "fix" that
so-to-speak without really changing their programs.

> 2) How precisely do businesses get the NSA and CIA to create competitive
> advantages? How do they convince the Trade Representative that they deserve
> government intervention on behalf of their shareholders, and how does the
> Trade Representative then pass back information? How does one business get
> this benefit and not another?

Earlier releases have already suggested trade delegations have worked
in that regard (broad trade agreements, offset agreements, etc.) but
the comparisons being drawn to State managed business (e.g. PLA model)
are where it breaks down. So I'm not sure what additional "shoe"
you're looking for here?

As a former insider I find it absurd when people say we can just call
up on our State espionage arms, the number of people conditioned to
break that and work against it in corporate environments is just too
high. And then to take it down into product development cycles when we
can't secure our shoe laces - further strains credulity.


So from my perspective the only shoe left to drop is how much
monitoring happens of local, State, and Federal politicians and on
behalf of whom. THAT is the one we want - that is the one that put
it's squarely back into J. Edgar FBI (and then ties the DEA and FBI
back into it).

The rest is basically noise when it comes to actually effecting change
in my view (sad but seems pretty true). -Ali

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