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[liberationtech] Naive Question

Matt Johnson railmeat at gmail.com
Mon Sep 9 13:58:46 PDT 2013


All of the sneaky signs, email headers and web page badges assume the
FBI, or whoever the adversary is are incompetent or inept.  That does
not see like a safe assumption to me. The only prudent approach is to
assume your adversary is intelligent and competent.

My guess is that the only defense against NSL's and the like is
through policy. I realize that may be blasphemy on this list, but
there it is.

--
Matt Johnson



On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 1:26 PM, LISTS <lists at robertwgehl.org> wrote:
> What are the legal precedents in terms of "wink, wink, nudge, nudge,
> djaknowhatimean?"
>
> - Rob Gehl
>
>
> On 09/09/2013 02:24 PM, Shava Nerad wrote:
>
> You are awesome,clever, and full of tricks. :)  Should I credit you with
> this?
>
> yrs,
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Case Black <caseblack at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> There's a more subtle variant to this idea...
>>
>> Regularly state ("put up a sign") that you HAVE in fact received an
>> NSL...with the public understanding that it must be a lie (there's no law
>> against falsely making such a claim...yet!).
>>
>> When actually served with an NSL, you would now be bound by law to remove
>> any such notification...thereby signaling the event.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Case
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 1:24 PM, LISTS <lists at robertwgehl.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I wonder if there's a false analogy here. Hypothetically, the
>>> librarian's sign could fall down (maybe the wind blew it over) whereas a
>>> notice on a site would have to be removed via coding. There would be
>>> little other explanation, even in the case where one does not
>>> affirmatively renew the "dead man's notice" (the countdown that Doctorow
>>> suggests in the article). Such an affirmative act might lead a court to
>>> believe that one has indeed informed the public about an NSL.
>>>
>>> - Rob Gehl
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/09/2013 12:18 PM, Dan Staples wrote:
>>> > Presumably, if this type of approach became widely adopted, it would be
>>> > a useful service for an independent group to monitor the status of
>>> > these
>>> > notices and periodically publish a report of which companies had
>>> > removed
>>> > their notice.
>>> >
>>> > On 09/09/2013 12:52 PM, Scott Arciszewski wrote:
>>> >> Forgot the URL:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/09/nsa-sabotage-dead-mans-switch
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Scott Arciszewski
>>> >> <kobrasrealm at gmail.com <mailto:kobrasrealm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>     Hello,
>>> >>
>>> >>     I saw this article on The Guardian[1] and it mentioned a librarian
>>> >>     who posted a sign that looked like this:
>>> >>     http://www.librarian.net/pics/antipat4.gif and would remove it if
>>> >>     visited by the FBI. So a naive question comes to mind: If I
>>> >> operated
>>> >>     an internet service, and I posted a thing that says "We have not
>>> >>     received a request to spy on our users. Watch closely for the
>>> >>     removal of this text," what legal risk would be incurred?
>>> >>
>>> >>     If the answer is "None" or "Very little", what's stopping people
>>> >>     from doing this?
>>> >>
>>> >>     Thanks,
>>> >>     Scott
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google.
>> Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated:
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>> change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at
>> companys at stanford.edu.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shava Nerad
> shava23 at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google.
> Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe,
> change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at
> companys at stanford.edu.



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