Search Mailing List Archives

Limit search to: Subject & Body Subject Author
Sort by: Reverse Sort
Limit to: All This Week Last Week This Month Last Month
Select Date Range     through    

[liberationtech] Naive Question

Case Black caseblack at
Thu Sep 12 13:00:31 PDT 2013

Although not an unalloyed fan of Ms. Rand, her words of 50 years ago do
seem relevant to our current situation ---

"Instead of being a protector of man’s rights, the government is becoming
their most dangerous violator.

Instead of protecting men from the initiators of physical force, the
government is initiating physical force and coercion in any manner and
issue it pleases.

Instead of serving as the instrument of objectivity in human relationships,
the government is creating a deadly, subterranean reign of uncertainty and
fear; by means of nonobjective laws whose interpretation is left to the
arbitrary decisions of random bureaucrats;

Instead of protecting men from injury by whim, the government is arrogating
to itself the power of unlimited whim—so that we are fast approaching the
stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to
do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission"

“The Nature of Government” 1963, Ayn Rand.

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Shava Nerad <shava23 at> wrote:

> Or if for example, they shut down their business, they could pursue them
> with charges.  (*cough* Lavabit *cough*).
> heh.
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM, R. Jason Cronk <rjc at>wrote:
>>  I think if they resigned in a publicly protesting way, then possibly
>> they could be on the hook. In other words, if they resigned and said "I'm
>> resigning but I *CAN'T* tell you why" then that could arguably be a signal.
>> However, if they just resigned and weren't ostentatious about it then it
>> probable wouldn't be an issue.  I really doubt the Lavabit founder will be
>> prosecuted and if so, it would be an extremely difficult case for the
>> government to make, not to mention a continuing public relations nightmare.
>> I'm just saying the prosecutor in the case was pissed and he made
>> insinuations that closing down Lavabit was tantamount to defying the court
>> ordered gag.
>> Jason Cronk
>> On 9/12/2013 9:38 AM, Jon Camfield wrote:
>> Hash: SHA1
>> On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 05:52 PM, R. Jason Cronk wrote:
>>  Anything which potentially signaled your receipt of an NSL would
>> be grounds for prosecution under the gag-order. This is what the
>> prosecutor was alluding to when he signaled that Lavabit's shut
>> down was tantamount to a violation because his shut down
>> essentially communicated the fact that he was under a court order
>> to do something which he couldn't talk about.
>>  For large companies, I wonder how resignations would count in this?
>> Could an NSL require, say, the lead cryptographer of an org to /not/
>> resign?
>>  Making your service secure such that you can't be forced to do this
>> sort of thing (or such that it would be obvious, say open in
>> reviewing your open source code) would be the only way to go.
>> *R. Jason Cronk, Esq., CIPP/US* /Privacy Engineering Consultant/,
>> *Enterprivacy Consulting Group* <>
>> * phone: (828) 4RJCESQ * twitter: * blog:
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird -
>> vlJEDgU/fDHBV12SnLM51+dMUrKf50FpLRNFhxoiIJ5s+FXHBAkZfCLzLKfj2tcN
>> oJn9/Uzcx0+6yjNvC6QM/MBP3aHhYKwDSDjA1YAaIix0twYimQdl7iBjMWXPVS6+
>> ECc9KB3q+s/TwgWdG/Nh4L43gBaR0X3C1uooW1j9q0OizCSMTw8dlKUgdbiGAJ6i
>> zSOzL0swYeMjyqKce6+kVu6NrehQEbOxisM55AQ5CF8E5IyzWXeKZOqbnWyOhp/q
>> ivyGZPxchLBsSYLpMHEv+duuszwzGGr3dYHucACqzk8USTKMM9hQytfq8exxirfi
>> mqvKKFhaeD3jOeYUnzfW1y0FVAhn/kt2jOtEy16nnAoYWZiU3JVa7ABy5YsRuyOE
>> fxz8qOn+Qfrh9DXJYRs77xFobyfUjhC57IxDYjTWuHbY8/wh75t2ZhNOieq4wm8m
>> sneQ20fShOy5Qe53BjqADagf5PnmZf9GzYtMgfSP3rtvnw2ALvNHUxpYsgh4NnnJ
>> eKPiLFeKYQIbLvoHiA0a/K6LK+ZDf3Ioo2Qjz3FVEZFOCj17IA7clxjRU7fkkIxr
>> 0qdnAvKWYCTbutEFzfwh+GSVNOrQZroOO5Pyy1O3j/2uMpzXIHhgNQNKSiN60gDl
>> dWN+O09ZuKBUqt/dKWgz
>> =nwpH
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>  *R. Jason Cronk, Esq., CIPP/US*
>> *Privacy Engineering Consultant*, *Enterprivacy Consulting Group*<>
>>    - phone: (828) 4RJCESQ
>>    - twitter:
>>    - blog:
>> --
>> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations
>> of list guidelines will get you moderated:
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at
>> companys at
> --
> Shava Nerad
> shava23 at
> --
> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations
> of list guidelines will get you moderated:
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at
> companys at
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <>

More information about the liberationtech mailing list