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[liberationtech] What should the "liberation tech" response be to ISIS-related recruiting online?

Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes alps6085 at
Thu Jul 2 08:00:58 PDT 2015

I agree with Carlo in princile 100%, although not quite on his optimism -
maybe out of ignorance, since it is hard for me to visualize what he means
by "discussion platforms on the web which are suited for rational debate
rather than populistic blabber..." So far, I've seen "double-edged swords"
all over, nothing else (that is, "rational debate" and "populistic blabber"
happening on the same platforms simultaneously, and sometimes interleaved
even on discussion threads themselves!)...

On a side note, it seems the term "democracy" is, like, a "pure abstract
virtual class!" :D So there's always a core dump when it tries to
"instantiate" itself! :D

As far as terrorism is concerned, the opposite is "almost true:" it's been
around since the beginning of "human race," as a tactic for cornered
dissenters. So we should put it in perspective - reading some of the stuff
on this topic (not Carlo's post, fer sure!) one would think it was born in
the second half of the XXth century at the earliest!

Best Regards | Cordiales Saludos | Grato,

Andrés L. Pacheco Sanfuentes
<alps at>
+1 (347) 766-5008

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 8:18 AM, carlo von lynX <lynX at>

> On Wed, Jul 01, 2015 at 06:00:08PM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote:
> > I don't think it's possible to simultaneously enable people to exercise
> > freedom of speech on the Internet while preventing the use of the net for
> > things we don't agree with. Recruiting for ISIS is just speech, and any
> > tools that would enable governments to stop that would also enable them
> to
> > stop other kinds of speech they find inconvenient.
> I have two suggestions to make to handle recruitment and
> abuse of suicidal radicalized persons:
> 1. Improve the web to better provide a rational debate on
>    all the issues rather than creating rhethorical bubbles
>    where the analysis of how evil capitalism and the west
>    have become is put in perspective where possible and
>    where the consequences of suggested action are especially
>    refuted - just because the world is evil doesn't entitle
>    you to make it even worse. Currently discussion platforms
>    on the web which are suited for rational debate rather
>    than populistic blabber are hard to find.
> 2. Take the criticism seriously. The capitalist west *is*
>    destroying the foundations of human life on planet Earth.
>    As long as there is no credible political effort to fix
>    this, we cannot expect frustrated youth not to radicalize
>    against the status quo.
> Had we proper democracy, the problem would probably not
> manifest itself:
> - Yes, the recruiters would enjoy Secrecy of Correspondence
>   enabling them to recruit without governments watching.
> - But, opposing political movements would not be impeded to
>   form, therefore political change would already be happening.
> - Thus if we had proper democracy we would already have fixed
>   wealth distribution and economic/ecologic sustainability
>   instead of wondering how it is possible that although 99,9%
>   of Earth population want things differently, the leading 0,1%
>   continue to do as they please.
> - Therefore the recruiters would not find anyone to recruit
>   for stupid kamikaze action happenings.
> In other words, terrorism is a problem caused by lack of
> democracy. The solution is to fix democracy.
> --
>   E-mail is public! Talk to me in private using encryption:
>          http://loupsycedyglgamf.onion/LynX/
>           irc://loupsycedyglgamf.onion:67/lynX
> --
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