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[liberationtech] Decentralization

Lluís Batlle i Rossell viric at viric.name
Tue Feb 7 04:55:42 PST 2017


When I said using Free Software, I meant running it as well, of course.

But the main point I said was that you may have most of your communication
with your colleagues not end-to-end encryption, while most WhatsApp users
are likely to have that.

As some practical results, most people may be having far more end-to-end
encrypted communication than you and I. That's quite disturbing, isn't it?
:)

On Tue, Feb 07, 2017 at 12:34:06PM +0100, Alberto Cammozzo wrote:
> Thank you Lluís,
> 
> as you say, "likely-private communications": you can't trust proprietary
> software, but even free software can't be trusted if it's run behind
> closed doors.
> 
> I run all my servers, I sign my certificates, use only free software and
> encryption.
> All my DNS traffic runs through VPN to avoid ISPs DPI tampering.
> I use alternative search engines and tracking protection plungins in my
> browsers, installed Cyanogen Mod on my phone (no G apps), shut down
> Gmail and Dropbox accounts and moved some servers in EU after Snowden
> revelations.
> Shut down Linkedin account after MS acquisition as well.
> No Facebook, no WhatsApp.
> 
> So far so good, but what is it all for? ~75% of my email correspondents
> use Gmail ...
> You cant decentralize alone...
> We need to fix this quickly or the information revolution will be lost
> and archived as an annex of the industrial revolution.
> 
> Bests,
> 
> Alberto
> 
> fonts.googleapis.com is the center-node of my networking graph.
> 
> -
> Alberto Cammozzo
> http://tagmenot.info
> @dontTag
> 
> On 07/02/2017 10:56, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:
> > Thank you for this writing and the link to the blogpost. I feel quite
> > identified.
> >
> > I also host my email and, moreover, I'm lazy to set up the ssl for all
> > that. That's enough headache, and I also have to use a third-party MTA to
> > be trusted, etc. And all the colleagues use email.
> >
> > But this means that I often face this situation: what is more important:
> > to run free software, or to have likely-private (but I can't check)
> > communications with my colleagues?
> >
> > I choose the free software, when I am faced with that question. And I get
> > into that question quite often.
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 06, 2017 at 12:35:38PM +0100, Alberto Cammozzo wrote:
> >> As Moxie Marlinspike put it: "cannibalizing a federated
> >> application-layer protocol into a centralized service is almost a sure
> >> recipe for a successful consumer product today."
> >> Successful, but short-sighted. No federated or even interoperable
> >> infrastructure will likely emerge from here.
> >>
> >> If e-mail system was to be built today, we would have one for Facebook,
> >> one for Google, one for Apple...
> >> All of them proprietary and probably non-interoperable: you would need
> >> at least four accounts to talk to everybody.
> >>
> >> Our current Web-centered communication ecosystem is similar to the
> >> balkanized pre-Internet: Bitnet, SNA, DECNET, Fidonet, OSI X.400, uucp...
> >> IBM, Digital and others were then profitably competing over a
> >> communication infrastructure and had no interest in cooperating to build
> >> a federated one.
> >> This impasse ended with government-funded TCP/IP: it was suitable,
> >> simple, free, open. It won quickly (but ICT users were literate then).
> >> What was the return on investment? On the immediate, zero.
> >> On the long period? Huge. ROI was systemic.
> >>
> >> We are in a similar market failure condition: "centralized" dominant
> >> companies won't drop profitable business, and "decentralized" startups
> >> wont get zero-ROI funding.
> >> Business can go an for a while in this ecosystem (where most users don't
> >> care of the architecture).
> >> It makes rather sense that governments, or non-profits or crowdfunded
> >> initiatives sponsor systemic infrastructures upon which business can
> >> evolve and competition thrive (as it makes sense that governments break
> >> monopolies, too).
> >> The EU should be a good candidate, only if it was rational about
> >> competition.
> >>
> >> Bests,
> >> Alberto
> >>
> >> [1] <https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Alberto Cammozzo
> >> http://tagmenot.info
> >> @dontTag
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/02/2017 21:17, Yosem Companys wrote:
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>> One of the problems may decentralized startups are confronting in
> >>> Silicon Valley is that venture capitalists are telling them that they
> >>> need to be centralized because there is no business model in
> >>> decentralization. 
> >>>
> >>> For an example, think Diaspora: The original vision of Diaspora was a
> >>> social network where each person could have his or her own node in the
> >>> network and connect to others to share data similar to how Napster
> >>> connected people to download music. But the data would live in your
> >>> machine, not Facebook's.
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone think of decentralized business models that are profitable
> >>> so folks on this list who are struggling with pitching
> >>> decentralization as a business model can succeed?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Yosem
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> -
> >> TagMeNot
> >> http://tagMeNot.info
> >> @dontTag
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at companys at stanford.edu.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -
> TagMeNot
> http://tagMeNot.info
> @dontTag
> 
> -- 
> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at companys at stanford.edu.

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