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[liberationtech] Tool so people might stop doing crazy things with their bitcoins (and stop being robbed)

Aymeric Vitte vitteaymeric at gmail.com
Mon Jan 29 08:30:38 PST 2018


What do you mean by "since we can't compile it after inspecting the
source code"?

It's only 1000 lines of javascript for nodejs using two other well known
modules, there is no compilation, you run it like this

And there are no plans to package it in a .exe or other for the very
reason that you mention, even if some people asked for it

And probably it would be good that you take a look at the posting
history and projects of the "someone", as well as what people think
about the tool, before advising what should be on this list or not

I indeed did hesitate to post it here because I knew that such
discussions would come, unfortunately shadowing more productive ones and
the interesting part

Le 29/01/2018 à 13:25, Marc Juul a écrit :
> Sure. I do feel like advertising a tool like this goes against the
> spirit of this list. This is someone advertising their own for-profit
> non-open source tool that charges you a percentage fee every time you
> use it and since we can't compile it after inspecting the source code
> there is no way to verify that it isn't simply a scam that will steal
> all of your money at some later date.
>
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 10:24 AM, Yosem Companys <ycompanys at gmail.com
> <mailto:ycompanys at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I'm no longer a list moderator, but I can't help but intervene
>     here. All of you have been and continue to be great contributors
>     to the larger liberationtech community. A longstanding participant
>     has created something to try to advance the public good. There may
>     be differences in terms of how to do it.  But we can all speak
>     amicably about the issues. 
>
>     On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Aymeric Vitte
>     <vitteaymeric at gmail.com <mailto:vitteaymeric at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Sorry I don't get a single thing in your answer, apparently
>         you don't
>         know what you are talking about (and please keep your
>         statements for
>         yourself, like "knowledgeable enough" and auditing the bitcoin
>         core code)
>
>         It's quite easy to check what the module is doing, this is "just"
>         implementing the bitcoin protocol, which works for quasi all
>         of existing
>         coins, there are no crypto inventions/tricks, and such tool
>         does not
>         exist then there is a real added value
>
>         Probably you don't know very well the bitcoin world and the
>         current
>         mess, please read everything again and we could discuss, and
>         indeed I
>         really care that people don't make mistakes with this module
>
>         And see https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets
>         <https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets> or
>         https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets
>         <https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets> or
>         https://github.com/Ayms/cashaddress
>         <https://github.com/Ayms/cashaddress> , those ones are not
>         trivial at all
>         also and completely open source, and btw can be combined with
>         the module
>         of course as explained, should people read things, consider
>         reading the
>         "not coming from nowhere" link too and linked issues on BTG
>         github rep
>         where people commented
>
>         See the git history of the README for your last question
>
>
>         Le 28/01/2018 à 16:53, Thomas Delrue a écrit :
>         > On 01/28/2018 06:22 AM, Aymeric Vitte wrote:
>         >> People don't estimate the effort to do such tool, which is not
>         >> trivial at all given the over complexification of bitcoin
>         stuff, and
>         >> are trying to cheat modifying the code to remove the fees
>         (which is a
>         >> bit crazy for such a module and could just result for them
>         to send
>         >> their coins to some wrong places or have them locked somewhere)
>         > And so your solution is not to prevent the 'cheating' but
>         instead to
>         > hide it, wave your hands and say "these are not the droids
>         you are
>         > looking for, move along"?
>         > If that is the case, I have a hard time understanding what your
>         > value-add is, because your solution has a hard-embedded way
>         to cheat,
>         > that is fundamental to its operation.
>         > Security through obscurity only works for an ever
>         diminishing time.
>         >
>         >> I think it's useless to restart an "open source vs not open
>         source"
>         >> discussion, open source does not mean secure and easy to
>         audit (try
>         >> for example to audit the bitcoin core source code and all
>         >> dependencies), the only thing that matters is that the code is
>         >> provided and can be checked, which is the case
>         > It is most certainly *not* useless to restart this
>         discussion because
>         > people still don't "get it". People need to be told about it
>         over and
>         > over again as demonstrated again right here.
>         >
>         > The fact that neither you nor I are knowledgeable enough to
>         be auditing
>         > the BitCoin core source code is not important; what is more
>         important is
>         > that someone who /is/ capable, has the ability, means and
>         access to do
>         > so: light works as a disinfectant and your choice to hide
>         from the light
>         > speaks for itself.
>         >
>         > Sadly, you also chose to keep something related to crypto
>         (generation of
>         > hashes) in an inaccessible state. If anything, this is the
>         part that
>         > should be made most easy to audit to those with expertise in
>         that area
>         > since it is the thing that will provide 'trust' to your
>         system. Since
>         > you're dealing with money, I'm pretty convinced that it is
>         incredibly
>         > important to you that people trust your implementation.
>         >
>         > Keeping a part, crucial to said trust, inaccessible is a big
>         red flag to
>         > me because chances are, you're rolling your own
>         crypto/hashing. And as
>         > we all (should) know: unless you are or have a team
>         cryptographers that
>         > do this for a living, rolling your own encryption will
>         result in enCRAPtion.
>         > If you're not rolling your own and are using a standard,
>         then why not
>         > make that easy to figure out and audit?
>         >
>         > Are you or do you employ one or more cryptographers?
>         >
>         >> In the first versions we stated something like "Should this
>         project
>         >> be funded we will remove the dev fees and it will become
>         fully open
>         >> source"
>         > Where exactly is this stated? I can't find it if I search
>         your github
>         > spot for the term  "source":
>         > https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions/search?q=source
>         <https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions/search?q=source>
>         >
>
>         --
>         Bitcoin transactions made simple:
>         https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
>         <https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions>
>         Zcash wallets made simple:
>         https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets
>         <https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets>
>         Bitcoin wallets made simple:
>         https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets
>         <https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets>
>         Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist
>         Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass
>         Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist:
>         http://torrent-live.org
>         Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
>         torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
>         node-Tor <https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-livenode-Tor> :
>         https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
>         <https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor>
>         GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
>
>         --
>         Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google.
>         Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated:
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>
>
>     --
>     Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google.
>     Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated:
>     https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>     <https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech>.
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>
>
>
>

-- 
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
Zcash wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets
Bitcoin wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets
Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist
Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.org
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms

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